WELCOME TO THE 3rd and Final DISCUSSION!
Now that you’ve finished Sense and Sensibility, what are your overall thoughts?? Did you enjoy reading this? What did you not enjoy? Are you excited to read Pride & Prejudice?
I will email everyone about the March P&P Schedule on Monday so that y’all will know when we’re doing the discussions and such!
I am having so much fun with everyone and it is awesome to read all of your thoughts about the reading as well during these discussions.
How are the buddy exchanges going??? I’d love it if you filled me in on everything, whether it’s by tagging me in the picture of your gorgeous loot, shooting me an email, or just mentioning below what’s been happening between you both!
******Please fill out the surveys below, I think you’re going to like the outcome of them if you do!******
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
- Some think that the ending of Sense & Sensibility is the saddest of all Austen’s novels? Do you agree? (Obviously, if you haven’t read any of her other novels, you don’t need to answer this)
- Before he abandons Marianne, is John Willoughby a likeable character? Does Austen give any indication early on in the novel that he is not as he appears?
- What did you learn about the difference between reason and emotion in this novel? Are there drawbacks to either? If so, where did Austen provide us with these warnings or drawbacks?
- How does Marianne’s illness affect Elinor, Col. Brandon, the Palmers, Willoughby, Sir John and Marianne herself. What revelation is made by Willoughby?
- Compare/contrast Mrs. Dashwood to Mrs. Ferrars.
- Can you see the stark contrast between Elinor & Edward, Colonel Brandon & Marianne, VS. Robert & Lucy, Fanny & John?
- TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Good luck!
Comment away!
The Hunt for Paperbacks 
Ok I’ll start with question 7 first. My thoughts on S&S. I love it. Not as much as P&P but it is great. The way Austen writes and her ability to show you the human interactions and have you sympathise with characters that you don’t really like. It is very well written and also lets you gain insight into the period in which it is written. So if you can’t tell i love it😃
Q6. The difference in the couples is quite dramatic. Elinor and Edward are the opposite of John and Fanny i think. They love and respect one another with no need to gain approval from anyone but each other. I also think Robert and Lucy are to show what Marianne and Willoughby could have been like if they had been married.
Q4. The illness changed everyone, it showed Elinor and Marianne just what kind of men Brandon and Willoughby are. (Also i think Willoughby just confessed to make himself feel better) It also shows I think how families come together.
Finally Q1. I don’t think it’s the saddest and without going into spoilery detail for everyone it is hard to explain why. Everyone had a happy ending and it was a sign of the times that they married for money and breeding not love. In that maybe it is a little sad but not the saddest i think.
Sorry about the essay guys 😃 can’t wait to see what you all think.
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I agree with you and don’t think it is the saddest Austen ending. I do think that Marianne and Willoughby would have had a bad marriage. Once she stopped worshiping him and saw him for what he really was which would have happened Marianne is not stupid she would have seen him for who he was but it would have been too late. She would have been miserable for life. With Colonel Brandon a man of worth she will be happy.
I agree that Marianne’s illness finally woke her up and make her grow up. I was happy when she stopped being a drama queen about Willoughby and let him go.
I do think John loves Fanny. Never really thought about her but I know that John thinks Fanny is amazing. Jane Austen says he was very fond of her. From how he talks she is one of the most amazing and kindest women to walk the earth and then her mother is the second.
P&P is Jane Austen’s masterpiece IMO. I can’t wait to read it next month.
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I think Mariannes illness was like a physical and physiological illness.
I know she got the cold from walking about the place the whole time but I also think her immune system or whatever was low because of the stress she went under after finding out about Willoughbys marriage and betrayal.
So I think it was like a result of the cold but also Willoughbys treatment towards her.
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I posted my comment before I was done🙈
Side note: I like how Austen details her illness. All the ups and downs etc. Might seem tedious to read to some but I think she did it so people couldn’t just put the illness down to female hysterics. I think Willoughbys rejection had a part to play but she never would have been as bad as she was. She was actuakkt physically sick as well.
I feel like I am rambling and not getting my point across. I hope you guys get what I am trying to say because my brain is not working😅
I think Marianne had to go through the illness and the shock of nearly dying to mature. I loved Austens description of her as being born to “discover the falsehood of her opinions”. It was after her recovery that she tried to be more practical like Elinor and ultimately made her suitable to marry Colonel Brandon.
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I agree that Willoughby’s treatment of her made her illness worse. She was always on edge at first looking for him to come and then her sadness after she found out he was marrying someone else. Austen said she didn’t sleep or eat much. I can’t imagine her immune system was very good after that. Plus they don’t have the medicine and immune systems we have today.
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Hello! Finally on time for posting!
I combined reading S&S and listening to the audio book narrated by Nadia May. It’s the first time I’ve done something like that to speed up a book. I did enjoy the audio book – If you haven’t used the Overdrive app you should! It connects with you local library so you can easily check out ebooks and audio books!
I’ve definitely enjoyed my book buddy exchange with Krista! So fun to find goodies to send her as well as receive sweet bookish surprises in the mail. We’re doing a combination of Austen related items and books.
Now on to the book:
1) I don’t really think Willoughby was ever a very likeable character. There are moments when he criticizes other people and I think his true shallow self showed through.
2) I think Elinor and Edward are an equally matched couple which is why the ending portrays them as one of the happiest couples. They’re temperaments fit well with one another and they truly love each other as people rather than for their money or ranking. Colonel Brandon & Marianne… I knew they would end up together but I still wonder at that coupling. Marianne and Brandon just seem so different. I feel like I didn’t get to see enough of the “reformed” Marianne to understand how she could come to love Brandon. But maybe that’s just me!
And oh my lord LUCY. I’m heated just thinking about that awful fictional woman!! She went out of her way to make sweet Elinor feel bad and hold Edward to an unwanted engagement to only runaway with his brother… And was then still forgiven. UGH. Lucy & Robert are terrible people. End of story.
Overall, I enjoyed this novel. However, I think Austen had a lot more “telling” rather than “showing” in her writing. She describes what the characters are thinking and doing rather than having them engage in dialogue. I wish there had been more dialogue. Also, this was the first time I really connected sentimental fiction with Austen. But obviously there’s a strong connection there because the characters’ emotion are some of the biggest plot points as well as terrible men ending up with terrible women while the good men and women end up together.
Anyways just some random thoughts on the book! (@bookishblissandbeauty)
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Like everything you’ve written here, I was thinking too!
I totally agree with Austen telling vs showing, though I noticed it in the ending of this book. I don’t remember any dialogue from the last chapter! It was just her telling us that everyone is happy, and these people got together, and that’s that! It surprised me after how involved she had been with the characters in earlier chapters.
For your first point on Willoughby, those moments early on where he was rude to Brandon definitely turned me off him, though I never expected what was to come! Personally, I did like Willoughby at first, though maybe more because I felt he was more suited to Marianne than Brandon. But thinking back on it now, his temperaments and emotions, as a 25(?) year old, exactly matched those of a 17-year-old. Definitely warning signs there.
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The moment that Willoughby talked sh*t about Colonel Brandon I took an instantaneous dislike to him. I agree that I liked him at the beginning because he was suited to Marianne, but as I continued to read I realized how inappropriate he was being, taking her to Allenham, telling the Dashwoods not to change the cottage etc. Marianne is definitely not one of my favourite characters but she still deserved better than the treatment that Willoughby gave her.
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Totally agree with everything you’ve written. Also great point about telling rather than showing, it would be great to get more dialogue from her characters, I think with this being the first book she writes that it is something that she improves on in the following novels.
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That’s true, I forgot about this one being her first novel. It’ll be interesting if we can pick up on how her writing matures through our next reads!
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I know this was originally supposed to be released in the form of letters etc. So I can see why Austen was telling rather than showing in her novel. But again it being her first novel I think she just needed to work out the kinks and I can’t wait to start Pride and Prejudice.
I like how we are reading them in order so we will be able to see Austens change in style/working out the kinks in her writing.
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I agree with all of your points. Austen is more of teller then a shower. She seems to do that a lot with some of her most emotional scenes. Robert and Lucy deserve each other and am happy that her and Robert fight all the time. Lucy does have a super power. She knows how to flatter people. That is how she won Robert over. Talking about him. Where you shocked when the got together? I was a first and then when I thought about it and Austen told us how it made perfect sense.
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So… I don’t totally take back my earlier comments on Lucy being maybe an okay person
But Lord, she surprised me!
I know we (love to) hate her after her whole master plan was revealed, but I kind of like her more now than earlier in the novel. Before with knew about her ulterior motive, I couldn’t really get a sense of what to think of her. Mostly, she just came off as annoying cuz she was constantly bothering Elinor with her own issues.
But now, there’s something kind of inspiring about how she worked solely for her own interest and came out on top! It makes me understand her a little better now, and yeah she’s bad but she is good!
John and Fanny are still terrible, though. Definitely my least favourites.
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Lucy is just a witch and wasn’t surprised by what she did. I don’t find her inspiring. I find her sicking. She only cares about herself and I can’t respect or like someone like that. Elinor is who is inspiring. Her quiet strength and good sense make her a character who I would want to be like. I don’t find selfishness aka solely for your own good an inspiring character trait.
John and Fanny are both just horrid people. My least favorites along with Lucy,Robert,and Mrs. Ferrars.
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I always tried to keep an open mind about Lucy. Not thinking she had ulterior motives when she told Elinor about her engagement to Edward etc. But as I got through the book I couldn’t pretend to be blind anymore. I think Lucy was very calculating from the get go but especially when she sent Elinor the letter, which was really a letter to Mrs Jennings looking for help.
I think she had a plan from the start and poor Edward would never break his word would have been stuck marrying her?
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She must have thought her luck was at the highest when she knew who Edward was. A rich man to fall into her lap and one she knew would never break an engagement with her. Her letter to Elinor that was meant for Mrs.Jennings(that kind hearted women couldn’t see it as such) as just sicking. If I was Elinor I wouldn’t have shown it Mrs. Jennings but then maybe I would she loves to much to know everything about everyone and she would have loved to be able to read the letter.
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For Q1, I haven’t read any other Austen books but I don’t feel this was a sad ending. Maybe everyone didn’t end up with the happiest of endings but they’re all fairly content, which is pretty good in my books!
Mostly I don’t see it as a sad ending because Elinor ended up happy and though the book is Sense AND Sensibility, she seemed to be the main character. Sure, she and Edward don’t have the favour of his mother and their treatment seems especially unfair considering Mrs. Ferrars’ treatment of Robert and Lucy, but Elinor and Edward have proven they don’t need Mrs. Ferrars’ approval to be happy with each other so I don’t think they really let it bother them. At this point, it’s probably more of a laugh for them how crazy things had to get before they were able to be together!
Just a clarification note, cuz I got a little confused with how much time was passing: would Edward have already been engaged to Lucy when Elinor was still at Norland? I wasn’t sure how long the Dashwoods had been at Barton before his engagement became known, whether 4 years or shorter.
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Yes Edward was already engaged to Lucy for a few years before he meet Elinor. The Dashwood ladies only stayed at Norland 6 months(I think or 8) after their father died and that is when they met Edward who came to see his sister.
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Thank you! I got a little lost on the timeline
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I said this in my post but if any character deserves a happy ending it’s Elinor. I think Jane Austen put it best when she said about Edward and Robert. “What Edward had done to forfeit the right of eldest son might have puzzled many people to find out; and what Robert had done to succeed to it might have puzzled them still more.” Well it did me. But Lucy sucked up and flattered her and acted sorry and Mrs. Ferrars loves that. Elinor would never lower herself to act a part to Mrs. Ferrars and flatter her. She would show respect and to Mrs. Ferrars who already thinks that everyone should respect her needs more. She needs to be told she is wonderful.
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That is very true! I am happy that Elinor and Edward end up together and happy and she keeps that close relationship with her sister. I think in the end they were probably better off with Edward not being the eldest son because they could just live their lives and not have Mrs. Ferrars actively interfering with their lives. Whereas Lucy would be in her element being told what to do and sucking up to Mrs. Ferrars
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I found some of the similarities really interesting, especially those in this final volume.
The one I found most striking was when Willoughby confessed to Elinor about how he had to choose to save himself over choosing “love” (I know he said he kind of/actually/really loved Marianne but he was still in it for himself so that’s why I’m using the quotations).
I immediately thought of Edward, who in similar circumstances chose “love” (as we thought it was then) in the face of financial ruin! Edward became my favourite character in that moment, because it was just so impressive how he had behaved when faced with a difficult choice and the pressure of his family. Particularly more so when it turned out he was actually doing it for Lucy’s feelings, to protect her and her image!
The other similarity, not as likable a moment, was in the final lead-up and description of Marianne and Brandon getting together. Their family and friends kept trying to get Marianne to the house so that by being around Brandon, she’d come to fall for him or at least like him somewhat 😛
But this reminded me of Edward’s explanation of being with Lucy. He had said that he thought he was in love with her mainly because he had no other distractions! The same situation of being “trapped” together that led to Edward and Lucy’s drama is now being purposely used to set up Marianne and Brandon. I already don’t like this pairing but in this light, it felt even more forced. So I guess in that sense, that made it a sad-ish ending for me, though more disappointing than sad.
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I knew you were going to be disappointed with Marianne and Colonel Brandon getting together as I remember you saying that in discussion 2. Edward is underrated as a character because I don’t think people really understand in this day and age what he was doing for Lucy and how big it was. He didn’t love her but sacrificed everything to keep his word/promise to her. The women he loved, his family(not that they were much of a loss but still), and his fortune.
Willoughby was a loser even at the end. He says he loved Marianne but truly I don’t think he ever loved anyone but himself. He is just upset because he married a disagreeable lady and she doesn’t have the character of Marianne. Like Elinor said if he married Marianne he would have been poor and then complained that he hadn’t married a rich women. Willoughby is a horrible human being. What he did to Eliza! Then what he did to Marianne. He is a huge jerk.
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Yes, Edward is the perfect foil to Willoughby, totally selfless where Willoughby acts solely for his own gain!
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I agree Edward was the perfect opposite to Willoughby. Even after Willoughbys confession I still had no time for him.
Like yes he explained why he did what he did to Marianne but there is no justification for what he did to Eliza is it? Colonel Brandon’s ward? I can’t remember her name so I’m going to trust you @thereadingrebel
Even then Willoughbys confession made me dislike him even more because I was like really? Her sister is seriously ill, they think she is not going to recover and you decide now is the best time to burden her with your confession?
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@Brennan45 Yes her name is Eliza like her mother. I think Jane Austen did that because the fate of both was similar. I feel bad for both mother and daughter. Of course Willoughby doesn’t lose his standing in society(he ever marry’s above his income) but she is ruined forever.
I hated Willoughby more for his confession. He didn’t even care or think that he was to blame for Eliza. He seemed to want to blame her. He says “If the violence of her passions,the weakness of her understand-I don’t mean to defend myself.” Yes he is. He is always trying to defend himself. Make himself feel better. It is all about him and never would be any different even if he had married Marianne. He would have seduced other women I have no doubt.
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I did enjoy reading the book, but it is probably one of my least favourites of Jane Austen’s novels. I found that Marianne annoyed me ( she was just so immature in the beginning, the victim in the middle, and then changes in every possible way by the end), Elinor was very sensible and gets a happy ending, but I wasn’t overly drawn to her as a character, Willoughby I dispised, and Colonel Brandon was the only character that actually did anything good in the book (but something about a 35 year old wanting to be married to a 17 year old is a bit too much). It was written beautifully, I laughed out loud at parts, I felt the hurt that they were feeling and the love at the end, but there was just something about it that makes it not as good as Austen’s other works.
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Emma is way more annoying then Marianne IMO(I will not go into that until we read Emma it is the only Austen novel that I gave 3 stars and don’t reread it much). You have to remember that 17yos marrying 35yos was very common in that time period. S&S is one of my favorites. P&P,S&S,Mansfield Park,and Persuasion are the ones I reread the most. Followed closely by Northanger Abbey.
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I haven’t read much of Austen so I can’t comment on which one is my least favourite but I am sure I can pick one after we read them all 😅.
I think Marianne was the character who changed the most. We originally see her and she is this tizzy boy mad teenager and at the end she is a grown women(I know she is only 19) married to someone who I think were drawn together through friendship and by their past traumas. They both were in love with people who ended up married to someone else, ultimately breaking their heart. Although I think we can agree colonel Brandon’s trauma was far worse in regards to what happened to his first love.
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I think my main thoughts are that I really really enjoyed this book. Yes people adore p&p but i just really liked reading about Elinor & Marianne and their journey. I thought the book was written beautifully and I don’t really see how it’s a sad ending.
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I didn’t think it was a sad ending either. Everyone ended up happy. Elinor and Edward are in love and living the life they want. Marianne has grown up and found a great man in Colonel Brandon. Friendship is always needed in a relationship and not just passion and Colonel Brandon and Marianne became friends. I can see that leading to love. Marianne and Elinor remained close.
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And I think this is what makes it a great ending in my book. because i think the strongest relationships can be forged by friendship first. Besides Marianne needed to mature and learn through the trials life set her on. I think personally i prefer this ending to P&P because you still get that great sisterly bond that was so prevalent throughout the book.
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First of all, my overall thoughts of the book, it was okay…maybe I would say it’s more good than bad. 😉 I really appreciate the sister relationship we see as well as Austen’s writing. I would say this ending is indeed sad, but I can’t compare it to others because this is my first Austen read! 🙂 I was not happy with the ending. Even though I don’t like Willoughby, I ended up feeling sorry for him towards the end. I hate that I feel sorry for him! I don’t even like him, but yet Jane Austen makes me pity him! Hah! I like Colonel Brandon, but did Marianne settle? The ending really bothers me because I was hoping Marianne would end up with Colonel Brandon, but in a more romantic way. I wanted to feel the love develop between them and all I got was Marianne was abandoned by Willoughby and BAM, she’s married to Colonel Brandon.
Anyone else feel this way? Does Austen do this to show that sometimes life doesn’t work out the way we want, or what? Haha! I’m so conflicted with how I feel about this book. After reading this, I was quite sad, although, it wasn’t a bad book and I look forward to read her other books along with all of you! 🙂
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I really liked the sister relationship too. Even though they’re so different, they really respect each other and seem to know each other so well. It was a great, caring relationship and I’m glad that was much of the focus of this book.
With your last comment, I did kind of get the sense that Austen was trying to write a “real” ending. It wasn’t the fairytale ending we’d maybe hoped for, this seemed to be Austen’s sensible side coming through!
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I also loved the sister relationship that the book focused on. Austen was very close to her older sister Cassandra. So I am not surprised her first book had a strong sisterly relationship in it. I can see why you are dissatisfied with Colonel Brandon and Marianne’s relationship not being more romantic. I do wish after Marianne’s illness Austen had written a few scenes with them together. You are not the first one to think that Colonel Brandon and Marianne were just throw together at the end.
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How amazing would it be to have more scenes with Marianne and Colonel Brandon and see them fall in love?
Is it bad that I didn’t realise Austen had a sister? I think I might have to do some research on Austen herself before I start Pride and Prejudice, might give me some insight to the books that I wouldn’t see otherwise!
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I would so amazing. I love Colonel Brandon he one of my favorite heroes and book boyfriends.
Her life is very interesting at least to me. I still need to read her letters. That is the only writing of hers I haven’t read yet. I would love to buddy read those with someone after we finish all her books in August.
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Can’t believe we are at the end of the month already!! Is it just me or did this month go by really fast?
Okay so first things first. Did anyone else laugh at Fanny Dashwoods complete overreaction to finding out the news of Edward and Lucy’s engagement? Cause I know I did.
Anne Steele. I never really had an opinion about her before this apart from the fact that I thought she acted very immaturely for her age. But really does she not have anything better to be doing than to be listening at doors? But when she is talking to Elinor about her brother and she says “I shan’t say anything against them to you”. I love Austens sit and humour I really do!
I love how Austen shows the difference between an actual conversation and the overhead whispers by Mrs. Jennings. At least when the truth was revealed, both Elinor and Mrs. Jennings had a laugh about it at the end.
Also I relate to Marianne so so much when she was described as haven a knack “of finding her way in every house to the library”. I mean me too girl, me too!
Willoughby, Willoughby, Willoughby. I know Austen was providing him another dimension so he wasn’t just the villain. But I did not pity him or feel sorry for him in the slightest. I mean I just thought he was a coward? Why come to Elinor? Why tell her to tell Marianne? He is married. As Austen says he didn’t die early from a broken heart! He should just live his life and accept his part to play on his situation instead of trying to shift blame onto anyone else.
Also! Finally Mrs. Dashwood sees sense and realise just because Elinor doesn’t show her emotions as much as Marianne doesn’t mean she wasn’t feeling anything!
I didn’t want Marianne and Colonel Brandon to end up together. I mean he was so nice and I didn’t see her do anything to even indicate that she like him etc. But I think his reaction to her illness and bringing her mother to her. I don’t think he was too old for her but I think she was too young for him. She needed to mature before she could even consider marriage let alone to Colonel Brandon.
Okay one last point because I know this is super long but what in the heck is Mrs. Ferrars problem? She doesn’t forgive Edward even after he doesn’t marry Lucy but Robert is fine even though he ran off to marry Lucy? Like what goes through that old lady’s head I have no idea! But yay Edward and Elinor are happy and end up together!
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I love the scene where Mrs. Jennings thinks that Colonel Brandon is proposing to Elinor. One of my favorites. I was laughing so hard. I also loved Mrs. Jennings letter about Lucy and Robert’s marriage. It was laugh out load funny. “Poor Mr. Edward who she was sure had quite doted on the worthless hussy” and “Miss Marianne might comfort him.” I loved it so much. Austen is great at making hilarious and lovable characters.
Am I the only one who loved Colonel Brandon and Marianne together? I mean they were friends and it was 2 years later and she married him when 19. I think she must have grown up and friendship is very important in a relationship and can see Marianne falling in love with Brandon after becoming friends with him. She had “strong esteem and lively friendship” when she married him and I can see that becoming love. Back then you were lucky if friendship and esteem were even on the table. What does Mrs. Dashwood say she never knew what it was to separate esteem from love. I am sorry I am not serious with that last sentence but I had to add it.
Willoughby is a jerk and I didn’t forgive him or think him really sorry. He was sorry for himself and not Marianne or his wife. He cares for no one but himself. He has proved that time and time again.
Edward did say that Robert is Mrs.Ferrars favorite son and would be forgiven sooner then Edward. Edward knew his mother well. He was so right. Mrs. Ferrars forgave them and ended up loving Lucy even.
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I think maybe I could’ve come to see Marianne and Brandon together because as you say they were good friends, but I think as someone above said about telling vs showing, this last portion of the book was very rushed that we didn’t really get to see this. In reading it, the two years pass very quickly and suddenly they’re married so we don’t get to see the relationship develop.
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I worded myself wrong. Originally I did not want Marianne and Brandon to end up together but after her illness. I think she needed to mature before they could end up together.
I found reading this book I began to appreciate Austens style of writing. She is so witty and funny and I would often find myself laughing at something she had wrote. Colonel Brandon’s “engagement” to Elinkr was one of those moments!
I get that Rovert was Mrs. Ferrars favourite but her reasoning was just ridiculous. I mean she even went on to approve Edwards marriage to Elinor yet she still is very distant to him. She is very much a old crone so maybe they were better off not having such a close relationship.
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Mrs. Ferrars forgave Robert because he was the favorite and Lucy because she flattered and sucked up and acted sorry. That is what I think. Elinor wouldn’t have sucked up and flattered Mrs. Ferrars and that would have been why she loved Lucy more. She loves to be flattered.
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Austen’s writing is always spot on, beautiful, and funny. She makes you understand characters in a few sentences and I find that amazing. I loved the Elinor/Brandon proposal scene. I was laughing so hard. I am always laughing when reading Austen. Even after what I estimate is my 7th read of S&S. I still crack up.
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Also quick question for everyone! What do people think about why Elinor (the rational one) is moved to forgive Willoughby after hearing his confession?
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From what I understand his charm and manner won her over. Hearing it from his lips and seeing his features did it. Willoughby is a very charismatic character and would do wonders on the stage. That is why she forgave him and I think it was the stress she was under with Marianne’s illness that weaker her ability to stay mad at him.
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I’m just like. The fact that he came when Marianne was so ill and burdened Elinor with his confession, made me hate it before he had even said it…
Willoughby is such a selfish person and even after his confession I don’t forgive him or pity him. I think it made me dislike him even more.
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I think it is because she is logical that she was able to not just rule by her emotions but look at the situation as a whole. By having that rationality i think this is what moves Elinor to think less poorly of him.
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Yes so selfish. He has proved time and time again that he only loves himself. Everything he has done has been for his enjoyment or his comfort. Flirting with Marianne because he just wanted to pass the time, seducing Eliza because he wanted too, marrying Miss Grey because he needed money, and confessing to Elinor so he would feel better. Never has he done anything for anyone else. He is one of the most selfish characters.
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I can’t believe that Marianne told Elinor in not so many words that she thought she didn’t feel deeply when Elinor told her about Edward’s engagement with Lucy. Elinor feels so deeply and maybe even deeper then Marianne she just doesn’t got all drama queen about it. I have never doubted that Elinor feels deeply. But she must be strong. She is the only sensibly and logical person in her family and has to hold it together. I love how Elinor put it “but I did not love only him” this what Marianne is saying with her behavior that she only loves Willoughby. I did love that after Elinor’s speech that Marianne finally sees she is wrong about her sister’s depth feelings. I was very happy that later and what a call finally Mrs. Dashwood sees that she has been a bit lacking in her attention to Elinor. Who else thought that Elinor felt more then Marianne?
I love the scene where John Dashwood comes to his sisters and Mrs. Jennings thinking they will sympathize with him about Edward. I love that they all agree that Dashwoods are worthless the minute he leaves. So funny. Talk about three people who never agree on anything. I am always laughing whenever Marianne and Mrs. Jennings agree on anything and they only agree about the Dashwoods and Ferrars.
Colonel Brandon is so kind and thoughtful to give his living to Edward. I bet it also bought up some sad memories about him and Eliza. I felt for Elinor when she had to give Edward the news about the living. For the women you love to make it so you can marry the woman you don’t must have been so painful for both Edward.
Robert Ferrars is such an idiot. Everything out of his month is ridiculous. The only time he said anything true was that Edward has a good heart.John Dashwood isn’t much better then Robert. He is one of the most money obsessed characters I have ever read. He talks mostly about money and his wife.
Marianne almost kills herself with her love for an unworthly man and what she thinks she should act like when hearbroken. One of the most shocking moments for me was when Willoughby just showed up when Marianne was sick. I never saw that coming. Did any of you guys? I wasn’t surprised to learn that in the beginning Willoughby wasn’t serious about Marianne and was just flirting with her to pass the time. Where you all surprised about that?
Listening to Willoughby try to defend himself was very pathetic and just made me hate him more. Marianne almost dying has made her grow up and her apologize speech to Elinor is so full of feeling and knowing she had made grave mistakes
Mrs. Jennings shows her worth more and more as the book goes on. When she stays with Elinor to help with Marianne it was so kind. Not everyone would do that.
Lucy was a witch to the end. She is so cruel. When she took off and married Robert why wouldn’t she just say she married Robert and not Edward. She just wanted to torture Elinor. Mrs. Ferrars is justly punished in Lucy marrying Robert. I was very much shocked at first at Lucy and Robert’s marriage. They only ever said horrible thing about each other. But then I thought that Lucy was happy to make a go at him knowing him to have a 1,000 pounds a year and Edward having almost nothing. What did you think about Lucy and Robert’s Marriage?
I felt so much joy for Elinor when she hears Edward is free. If any character in this book deserves a happy ending it’s Elinor.
I loved that Mrs. Smith forgave Willoughby because he married a women of character and made him her heir again. I feel that he deserves to know that if he had stood by Marianne he might have had a great women and been rich.
I loved rereading S&S will you all and of course loved seeing the book for everyone’s perspective. I can’t wait to discuss P&P next month.
Sorry I am so late in posting. I am enjoying the bookmark exchange. Always.Halloweenish loved the bookmarks I sent her and can’t wait to see what she picked out for me.
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I agree with you about Elinor feeling very deeply, though I didn’t realize how much she felt until Lucy told her of the engagement. I think on your point about her feeling more deeply than Marianne, this could be tied to her sensible way of thinking. She’s always concerned with how others will react so while she’s having her own reactions, she’s also trying to protect those she cares about. It’s like she’s got a lot more on her plate, and being so in touch with her loved ones and so careful around their feelings must be a great burden.
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I love Colonel Brandon! I liked him at the end of Volume two but for him to offer Edward the job purely because he knew Elinor was friendly with him was ridiculously nice.
My heart broke when he was like oh you can tell Edward. Then when she was trying to focus and prepare herself to write the letter who would walk in but Edward? My heart stopped when I read that I was just thinking of poor Elinor who once again has to bury her feelings.
I can understand why Marianne could feel like Elinor didn’t feel as deeply. We have the insight into Elinor so we know her heart is breaking. We know she feels deeply, possibly even more than Marianne. Whereas Marianne is very vocal with her feelings and can’t understand how her sister looks to be fine hearing about the news. She reacts so she can’t understand how Elinor doesn’t react. Her conclusion is well if she doesn’t react obviously she doesn’t feel as deeply or she would show it.
I relate very much to Elinor. I bottle up my feelings and do not show them. I hide them all on the inside like poor Elinor. I understand why Elinor doesn’t react they way Marianne expects her too. But Marianne just doesn’t realise people can react differently but still have deep feelings.
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What is Willoughby was already engaged to Marianne when Mrs. Smith though him off? Would he have kept his engagement with her? It was a huge disgrace for a man to break an engagement(as we have seen with Edward and Lucy). I think Willoughby still would have left and went to marry Miss Grey. He loves money and ease to much to give it up for love. If he even knows what love is other then self love.
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I have always wondered by Austen choose to close the book with these last words”let it not be ranked as the least considerable, that,though sisters, and living almost within sight of each other, they could live without disagreement between themselves or producing coolness between their husbands”
I think that Austen wanted a realistic ending and not a they all lived happily ever after. What do you all think?
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I did read in one book about Austen that she told her family that Anne Steele never did catch the doctor. I do feel bad for Anne Steele. If she had an education and a stronger understanding. I imagine she could have been a useful person and gotten married.
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Q2. I have never thought Willoughby a very likable character. He is rude. When he spoke badly of Colonel Brandon my dislike for him was set. He was also so rude when Colonel Brandon had to leave and go to town. Saying that the note was off his own writing. He didn’t really care about others. When he danced with others he ignored them and only talked to Marianne. He called Marianne by her christian name and made everyone think they were an item. He didn’t care about Marianne’s reputation only himself. He could have ruined her showing her about Mrs. Smith’s home.
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Q6 I compare Colonel Brandon and Marianne’s relationship with John and Fanny because both Colonel Brandon and John adore their wives. But unlike John Colonel Brandon would never let Marianne talk him out of doing what he sees as right.
I compare Robert and Lucy’s relationship with Edward and Elinor’s because Robert and Lucy are bought together by self interest and folly. While Elinor and Edward are bought together by love and respect.
I am commenting like this because I see that people read shorter posts and answer them more then longer ones. I feel like I am posting to long of posts and mean to break them up in future a bit.
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I think that these probably are meant to be juxtaposed, i’m just terrible at it because i read to enjoy not analyze. thank god i’m out of school.
I find the fact that Robert & Lucy got together quite baffling because Robert knows exactly what happened to Edward bc of this chick and now he up and marries her. IT seemed very odd and just not right.
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I did find it odd but it kind of makes sense a bit. Robert came to talk Lucy out of her engagement with Edward. Lucy knows how to flatter and suck up. She talked about his favorite subject himself. I can see how he would fall for that with his vanity and self love. Plus he would have loved to show up Edward and Robert now has 1,000 a year and can marry whoever he wants. I also think he liked doing something against his mother because he finally had that power.
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I think Elinor should have been much harder on Edward for leading her on. But she was in love with him and had meet Lucy so felt sorry that he was going to spend his life with someone of such a selfish and low character. I can see why some of you wanted Colonel Brandon and Elinor to get together. They have similar personality traits and I think that was what attracted them as friends. But there is such a thing as being too similar and I think that was what Elinor and Colonel Brandon were. They didn’t have a self-love so they fell in love with people who had different personalities then them. I think that Willoughby and Marianne had to much self love and thus fell in love with someone like themselves. Until Marianne changed and saw her own mistake.
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super late coming to this party this time.
Q4. Marianne’s illness l feel was brought on by stress and anxiety of Willoughby’s deceit and subsequent marriage. This day in age we are aware of how stress and anxiety play with our immune system and you mix in with that walking in the rain and cooler weather her immune system would of been already low. This effected everyone in a similar way Elinor and Mrs. Dashwood as they thought they would loose a sister/ daughter. Col. Brandon as he felt he would loose her without her knowing how he really felt and vis versa. Willoughby realised how horrid of a person he was towards Marianne, loathing his new marriage, this made him realise how good he could of had it, money didn’t buy happiness in a way, and now at Marianne was “dying” he wanted to air his grievances to make him self feel better.
Q7. I think this book is a mix of family loyalties and true colours. people marrying a certain person to further their child’s prospects and future with money. I was at first shocked at Edwards already betrothal to Lucy Steele, but to find Mrs. Farrar’s reaction as the girl did not have enough money but turn of events when Lucy Married Edwards brother Robert as he was set to inherit the majority of his mothers estate.
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Well at least we all agree that Willoughby just wanted to make himself feel better confessing to Elinor. I also think that Colonel Brandon was thinking he was going to lose another women he loved to illness like his first love. I bet he flashed back to Eliza illness many a time when Marianne was sick.
Yes it was a shock when Lucy confessed to an engagement with Edward. But as the story was told it make a lot of sense. Edward’s family wasn’t very kind to him and Lucy seeing her chance was probably very kind and showed him love(if she it capable of love is in question but she is a great actress). Plus he was around Lucy all the time when he was being educated by her uncle. He says he is very uncomfortable around new people and he would have been comfortable around Lucy as she visited the uncle a lot.
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